Multaqa Ahl al-Hadeeth

Go Back   Multaqa Ahl al-Hadeeth > Fiqh of Ahlulhadeeth & Comparative Fiqh
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:29 PM
Rasema Rasema is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,435
Default Which is the right way to pray?

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

What is the most authentic way to pray? I would like as many links as possible about Salat, please. It imbetters my salah

I have done research before. I prayed according to Hanafis madhab but I added the takbir for sujood(you know what I'm speaking about).

Should women pray differently than men? Not that I have a problem with it.

I can't,can't do the position in where you keep your right foot up and the left down. Do I have to?

Which sunnets are obligatory? Which aren't?

I don't even know the translation to everything(May Allah(T) forgive me)especially etehijatu.

Thank you very much
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-03-2009, 11:06 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,276
Default

وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

My respected sister,

There are some good books that teaches one how to pray. The best of it would be the book of Shaikh Abu Bakr Zaid or the book of Shaikh Ibn Baaz. However, I am unsure if the books have been translated. There is the book of Shaikh al-albaani and it is good although it has some not strong views about some Sunan.

You can watch this vedio as it gives the basics that you need to do during the Salaag inshallah:

http://www.islamictube.net/watch/518...---How-to-Pray

Also, if you mean you added the Takbir (raising hands) between the two sojood then that is a weak view. You should raise your hands in the following places:

a. Before starting the Salaat while you are saying the Takbeer.

b. at the time you want to bow

c. upon raising from Rokoo

d. upon raising from the first Tashahud which takes place in the second Raka'aa

Takbeer itself takes place in the following places:

a. begining of the Salaat
b. upon bowing
c. upon going down for sojood
d. upon raising from first sojood
e.upon goin down for second sojood
f. upon raising from second sojood
g.upon standing up from the first sitting for Tashahud

Scholars prefered to women to pray different in some certain places such like:

a. she place her hand while she is standing on her chest as that covers her body properly

b. when she is in sojood, she make it while she has her body limps close to eachother as that cover her body better and it preserve her hayaa.

c. IF women pray with women only in congregation, then the Imaam, she stands in middle of first row between women.

About how to place your feet when you sit, you can just simply need to have toes to be in direction of Qibla. Do that to your ability and that would be enough inshallah.

I am currently writing a guideline for one to know how to pray inshallah. However, the above is enough to make you know how to pray correctly inshallah. It is the same as Hanafi but you need to raise your hand upon raising from Bowing. The rest should be the same inshallah.

Walllahu A'lam
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-04-2009, 12:06 AM
Abdul-Haqq Abdul-Khaliq Abdul-Haqq Abdul-Khaliq is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 52
Default

The book by Shaykh Ibn Baaz has been translated, however i think only a abridged version.

There is a book by Shaykh Mashur Salmaan which has been translated
__________________


AhlalHadeeth.wordpress.com
ShaykhulIslaam.wordpress.com

A poet said:
“Ahlul-Hadeeth are the people of the Prophet, although
They accompany him not, they are with his every movement.”
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-04-2009, 10:30 AM
Fahim Senzai Fahim Senzai is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 391
Default

Assalaamu alaikum.

Here is the book by Shaikh Al-Albani on how to pray.

http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/toc.html
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-04-2009, 11:02 AM
Abdul-Haqq Abdul-Khaliq Abdul-Haqq Abdul-Khaliq is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahim Senzai View Post
Assalaamu alaikum.

Here is the book by Shaikh Al-Albani on how to pray.

http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/toc.html
JazakAllah khair.....


also here is the book by ash-Shaykh Ibn Baaz

http://s1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_...het_Prayer.pdf
(Right click then save target as)

There is some more beneficial books on salaah on the link below
http://www.haqqonline.com/2008/12/salah.html
__________________


AhlalHadeeth.wordpress.com
ShaykhulIslaam.wordpress.com

A poet said:
“Ahlul-Hadeeth are the people of the Prophet, although
They accompany him not, they are with his every movement.”

Last edited by Abdul-Haqq Abdul-Khaliq; 11-04-2009 at 11:04 AM. Reason: typing error
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-04-2009, 10:14 PM
Rasema Rasema is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,435
Default

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

My deeply respected brothers and sisterr, may Allah, subHana wa ta'ala, reward you all.

I for sure will read these links inshAllah.

Quote:
I am currently writing a guideline for one to know how to pray inshallah. However, the above is enough to make you know how to pray correctly inshallah. It is the same as Hanafi but you need to raise your hand upon raising from Bowing. The rest should be the same inshallah.
Yes, I understand. But there are so many different views. I hope that all the information in the links matches. Thanks anyways

I read somewhere before that your forehead should not have anything on it(hijab?), that it invalidates your prayer.

Can you speak after you take wudu? Can you speak while you're taking wudu?

I have other questions from these links that I will ask later on, inshAllah.

Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-04-2009, 11:58 PM
Abdul-Haqq Abdul-Khaliq Abdul-Haqq Abdul-Khaliq is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasema View Post
But there are so many different views. I hope that all the information in the links matches. Thanks anyways
They will match inshAllah..
There are minor differences.... e.g like moving the finger during tashahud and whether to put your hands back on your chest after you get up from the ruku
__________________


AhlalHadeeth.wordpress.com
ShaykhulIslaam.wordpress.com

A poet said:
“Ahlul-Hadeeth are the people of the Prophet, although
They accompany him not, they are with his every movement.”
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-05-2009, 07:01 AM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasema View Post
Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

Quote:
Yes, I understand. But there are so many different views. I hope that all the information in the links matches. Thanks anyways
My respected sister,

Just read the book of shaikh Ibn Baaz and that will be enough and i do not suggest to read other books.

Quote:
I read somewhere before that your forehead should not have anything on it(hijab?), that it invalidates your prayer.
No. It does not invalidate your Salaah. However, it is Makrouh.

Quote:
Can you speak after you take wudu?
Yes sure you can.

Quote:
Can you speak while you're taking wudu?
It is Makrouh. But if there was a need to then that is fine inshallah.

Quote:
I have other questions from these links that I will ask later on, inshAllah.
As I said, just read the book of Ibn Baaz and do not read other links.

Barak Allahu feekum
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-05-2009, 08:10 AM
bin_nazir bin_nazir is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled View Post
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته
Scholars prefered to women to pray different in some certain places such like:

a. she place her hand while she is standing on her chest as that covers her body properly

b. when she is in sojood, she make it while she has her body limps close to eachother as that cover her body better and it preserve her hayaa.
Walllahu A'lam
This is what the hanafis in my country say, bro Ayman, can you please enlighten us further with regards to this , like which scholars and what are their proofs? or if there is some book that I can refer to ?

JazakAllah

wa salaam.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:34 AM
marium marium is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled View Post

There is the book of Shaikh al-albaani and it is good although it has some not strong views about some Sunan.
Assalamu Alykum Warahmatullah

Ustadh Ayman, what are those Sunan, please mention. Sheikh Albani brings his references from ahadith and aathar.

JazakAllahu Khair,
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:49 AM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bin_nazir View Post
This is what the hanafis in my country say, bro Ayman, can you please enlighten us further with regards to this , like which scholars and what are their proofs? or if there is some book that I can refer to
Even shafie Madhab hold similar view and they are valid.

Acts like: where to place hands, how to bow and how to make sojood and etc. They rely on Athaars and principles that concern women.

Search the Multaqa as such issues have been explained previously.
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:59 AM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marium View Post
Assalamu Alykum Warahmatullah

Ustadh Ayman, what are those Sunan, please mention. Sheikh Albani brings his references from ahadith and aathar.

JazakAllahu Khair,
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

Such like: where to place the hand, moving the finger during Tashahud, raising hands between two sojood and etc.

Wallahu A'lam
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-05-2009, 01:36 PM
Usool as-Sunnah Usool as-Sunnah is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 387
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled View Post
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

Such like: where to place the hand, moving the finger during Tashahud, raising hands between two sojood and etc.

Wallahu A'lam
But Bin Baz has the same opinion about where to place the hands, does he not? Additionally, he says to place the hands BACK on the chest after coming up from rukoo`. Why criticize Albani (رحمه الله) on one hand and ignore what Shaykh Bin Baz (رحمه الله) says?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-05-2009, 01:41 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usool as-Sunnah View Post
But Bin Baz has the same opinion about where to place the hands, does he not?
Yes and so other recent scholars who adopted a view that is different to early scholars or took the view of early scholars in more strict manner.

Anyhow, where to put your hand is fine and it is preferable to place it above the navel, while it would be better as well to place below the navel sometimes.

Wallahu A'lam
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-05-2009, 01:44 PM
Usool as-Sunnah Usool as-Sunnah is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 387
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled View Post
Yes and so other recent scholars who adopted a view that is different to early scholars or took the view of early scholars in more strict manner.

Anyhow, where to put your hand is fine and it is preferable to place it above the navel, while it would be better as well to place below the navel sometimes.

Wallahu A'lam
Why criticize Albani on it and ignore Bin Baz?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-05-2009, 01:45 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usool as-Sunnah View Post
Additionally, he says to place the hands BACK on the chest after coming up from rukoo`. Why criticize Albani (رحمه الله) on one hand and ignore what Shaykh Bin Baz (رحمه الله) says?
Because shaikh al-albani (رحمه الله) view on it is weak as well and classifying that as a bid'aa is odd view that he has no salaf with it! Also, please soften your words and assume the best in others. Needless to add, we do not criticize but rather point out. A person like me has no right to criticize scholars who I would be honored even to set next to their feet.

Jaazk Allah khair
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-05-2009, 01:48 PM
Usool as-Sunnah Usool as-Sunnah is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 387
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled View Post
Because shaikh al-albani (رحمه الله) view on it is weak as well and classifying that as a bid'aa is odd view that he has no salaf with it! Also, please soften your words and assume the best in others. Needless to add, we do not criticize but rather point out. A person like me has no right to criticize scholars who I would be honored even to set next to their feet.

Jaazk Allah khair
Wa iyyaak, but its hard to assume the best in others when one notices a pattern. Maybe I'm the only one that notices it.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-06-2009, 05:39 AM
marium marium is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled View Post
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

Such like: where to place the hand, moving the finger during Tashahud, raising hands between two sojood and etc.

Wallahu A'lam
JazakAllahu Khair Ustadh Ayman,

Please pardon my ignorance - but how are these weak views when the Sheikh brings sound evidences from the text?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-06-2009, 05:40 AM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marium View Post
JazakAllahu Khair Ustadh Ayman,

Please pardon my ignorance - but how are these weak views when the Sheikh brings sound evidences from the text?
He relies on what he concluded and what he classify as authentic (smile).

He did his own Ijtihaad but he mistaken in some issues therefore he is rewarded only once as the hadeeth said.

Wallahu A'lam
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-06-2009, 11:12 PM
umm abdullah umm abdullah is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,808
Default

jazakumullahu khairan sister for the good question

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/9276/women%20praying

Praise be to Allaah.

The way in which women pray is the same as the way in which men pray in every part of the prayer, prostration, sitting, and so on. This is based on the following evidence:

1 – The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Pray as you have seen me praying.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari. This is addressed to both men and woman.

Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Everything that we have said above about the way in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prayed applies equally to men and women. There is nothing narrated in the Sunnah which implies that women are exempted from any of that. Rather the general meaning of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “Pray as you have seen me praying,” include women too.

Sifat Salaat al-Nabi, p. 189

2 – The general meaning of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Women are the twin halves of men.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 204; al-Tirmidhi, 105, from the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah. Also narrated by al-Daarimi, 764, from the hadeeth of Anas.

Al-‘Ajlooni said: Ibn Qattaan said: The isnaad from ‘Aa’ishah is da’eef (weak), but the isnaad from Anas is saheeh (sound).

Kashf al-Khafa’, 1/248

Al-Khattaabi said: What we understand from this is: If something is said in the masculine, it is addressed to women too, except in cases where there is evidence to indicate that it applies only to women.

Some of the scholars said that a woman should not sit as a man sits (in prayer), and they quoted two da’eef (weak) hadeeths as evidence for that.

Al-Bayhaqi said:

Two da’eef hadeeth were narrated concerning that, the like of which cannot be taken as evidence.

The first is the hadeeth of ‘Ata’ ibn al-‘Ajlaan from Abu Nadrah al-‘Abdi from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, the companion of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), that he used to command the men to spread out their arms in their prostration and he used to tell the women to keep their arms close to their sides in their prostration. He used to tell the men to spread their left foot along the ground (and sit on it) and place the right foot upright during the tashahhud and he used to tell the women to sit, kneeling, on their heels.” Then al-Bayyhaqi said: This is a munkar hadeeth.

The other is the hadeeth of Abu Mutee’ al-Hakam ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Balkhi from ‘Umar ibn Dharr from Mujaahid from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar who said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a woman sits during the prayer she should place one thigh against the other and when she prostrates she should press her stomach against her thighs, compressing herself in the most concealing manner, for Allaah looks at her and says: ‘O My angels, I call you to bear witness that I have forgiven her.’” Sunan al-Bayhaqi al-Kubra, 2/222.

This hadeeth is da’eef, because it was narrated by Abu Mutee’ al-Balkhi.

Ibn Hajar said:

Ibn Mu’een said: He is nothing. On one occasion he said: He is da’eef. Al-Bukhaari said: He is da’eef. Al-Nasaa’i said: He is da’eef. Lisaan al-Mizaan, 2/334.

Ibn ‘Adiyy said: It is clear that Abu Mutee’ is da’eef in his ahaadeeth and everything that he narrated, and for most of his narrations there are no corroborating reports.

Al-Kaamil fi Du’afa’ al-Rijaal, 2/214

A third hadeeth was narrated from Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb, saying that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) passed by two women who were praying. He said: “When you prostrate, press some of your flesh to the ground, for women are not like men in that.”

This was narrated by Abu Dawood in al-Maraaseel (p. 118) and by al-Bayhaqi (2/223).

This hadeeth is mursal, which is a category of da’eef (weak).

In al-Musannaf (1/242), Ibn Abi Shaybah narrated some reports from some of the salaf which suggest that there is a difference in the way women and men sit (in prayer), but the only evidence that counts is the words of Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Then he narrated from some of the salaf that the way in which men and women pray is the same.

Al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Umm al-Darda’ used to sit in prayer as a man sits and she was a scholarly woman.

Al-Haafiz stated in Fath al-Baari that Abu’l-Darda’ had two wives, both of whom were called Umm al-Darda’. The older one was a Sahaabiyyah and the younger one was a Taabi’iyyah. He suggested that the one who was referred to here by al-Bukhaari was the younger one.

See also the answer to question no. 38162.


http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/38162

Praise be to Allaah.

Some of the scholars are of the view that men and woman should pray differently, and they quote a number of ahaadeeth as evidence for that, but these are all da’eef (weak) and cannot be taken as evidence.

See the answer to question no. 9276.

But the correct view is that there is no difference in the way men and women pray.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen said, refuting the view of the fuqaha’ that “women should not spread their arms out, rather they should keep them close to their sides and when they prostrate they should press their stomachs to their thighs and their thighs to their calves… because they should conceal themselves, and compressing themselves is more concealing than spreading out.” Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

This may be answered in several ways:

1 – This reason cannot stand up against the general meaning of the texts which indicate that women are like men with regard to rulings, especially since the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Pray as you have seen me praying,” and this is addressed in general terms, including both men and women.

2 – This reason is redundant because usually, as is prescribed, women pray alone in their houses with no men present. In that case there is no need for them to compress themselves, so long as no men can see them.

3 – You say that she raises her hands, and raising the hands is more likely to uncover than spreading the arms when prostrating. But despite that you say that it is Sunnah for her to raise her hands, because the basic principle is that the rulings apply equally to men and women.

The correct view is:

Women should do the same things that men do in the prayer, so they should raise their hands and spread their arms out when prostrating, and make their backs level when bowing and lift their stomachs up off their thighs, and their thighs up off their calves, when prostrating… they should sit on the left foot with the right foot held upright when sitting between the two prostrations and in the first tashahhud. In the last tashahhud of the prayer there is only one tashahhud, and they should sit mutawarrikan (with the left upper thigh on the ground and both feet protruding from one (the right) side) during the final tashahhud of three- and four-rak’ah prayers.

There are no exceptions for women in any of these matters.

Al-Sharh al-Mumti’, 3/304, 303

Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, at the end of his book Sifat Salaat al-Nabi (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) (The Prophet’s Prayer Described):

“All that has been mentioned of the description of the Prophet's prayer (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) applies equally to men and women, for there is nothing in the Sunnah to necessitate the exception of women from any of these descriptions; in fact, the generality of his statement (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), ‘Pray as you have seen me praying’, includes women”

If we assume that a woman is praying in a public place where men may see her, such as in the Haram in Makkah, or in a park – if she has to pray there – then she should be careful with regard to every action that may lead to uncovering any part of her, and take extra precautions in this case. And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A


If i sit tightly i feel im trying so hard and i lose concentration as it takes some effort and is uncomfortable so my khushu dissapears, i know sisters who also feel like its not natural to tuck in arms and body, its much more relaxed to pray like brothers hence improving the khushu in salah. Obviously we only pray like that when in private , not with men around. What evidence is there to suggest this is not the correct view?

jzk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.