Allah begins ???

[Oum Ahmad Mohamed]

Salam,

Al-Awwal 73 The First
Al-Akhir 74 The Last

How can god BEGIN and be the LAST if he is indeed God? Someone explain please. What does it mean to begin and to be the last?

I understand BEGIN to mean THE FIRST, and THE LAST to mean THE END.

[Muhammad Salman]

as-salamu 'alaykum

I think it is very simple, there is even a hadith on this, Allahu A'lam

Al-Awwal: When there was nothing, He was there - before anything was created He already 'existed'

Al-Akhir: When there will be nothing, only He will remain.

--Edit--

Here is the hadith I was talking about

Al-Awwal (the First), al-Aakhir (the Last); al-Zaahir (the Manifest), al-Baatin (the Hidden). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) explained this in a clear and comprehensive fashion when he said, addressing his Lord: “You are the First, and there is nothing before You; You are the Last, and there is nothing after You. You are the Manifest and there is nothing above You; You are the Hidden and there is nothing beneath You.”

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/2594

[Oum Ahmad Mohamed]

wa `alaikum salam,

Hmm so how do christians understand their God being the first and the last? Plus, Since god is the LAST does that not imply that paradise is finite?

I didn't know being the first and the last are attributes of Allah.

[Bint Nail]

Assalamu alaykum sis

Allah being the First doesn't imply that He azza wa jal began, it means that He always was, unlike all of the creation which has a beginning.

[Oum Ahmad Mohamed]

Originally Posted by Bint Nail

Assalamu alaykum sis

Allah being the First doesn't imply that He azza wa jal began, it means that He always was, unlike all of the creation which has a beginning.

wa `alaikum salam dear sis,

..But first in the english language means it had a beginning point and not that it was always there.

[Bint Nail]

Maybe so, but only in the case of creation. Allah is not only the First but Eternal, there was nothing in existence before Him and there is nothing like Him. He was not created unlike His creation therefore He has no beginning.

[Oum Ahmad Mohamed]

Originally Posted by Bint Nail

Maybe so, but only in the case of creation. Allah is not only the First but Eternal, there was nothing in existence before Him and there is nothing like Him. He was not created unlike His creation therefore He has no beginning.

If we look outside of creation and Allah is not bound by time then al awwal has no meaning since something can only be first if there is a timeline.

[Muhammad Salman]

as-salamu 'alaykum

Bismillah

Originally Posted by Ruwayda Mustafah

..But first in the english language means it had a beginning point and not that it was always there.

we clarify to them what it really means in Islam

Originally Posted by Ruwayda Mustafah

Hmm so how do christians understand their God being the first and the last?

I do not know and I would not be surprised if they believe in the same thing.

Originally Posted by Ruwayda Mustafah

Plus, Since god is the LAST does that not imply that paradise is finite?

no, it does not. You are confusing with paradise willed to be last forever with Allah being al-Aakhir. al-Aakhir means that if there is not a single creation left then Allah will still be there. Allahu A'lam

maybe someone else explain it better, insha'Allah

[Bint Nail]

Originally Posted by Ruwayda Mustafah

If we look outside of creation and Allah is not bound by time then al awwal has no meaning since something can only be first if there is a timeline.

surely Al Awwal has meaning otherwise we wouldn't have it in our texts. As the Prophet said, "You are the First, there is nothing before you"-this is the meaning in itself.Thus as there was nothing before Allah, He also has no beginning. beyond this I'll have to leave it to the better equipped ones here, I usually tend to cause confusion (or so I think), lol.

[Al Habeshi]

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem,

as-Salaamu 'Alaykum,

Being first in the English language does not neccesitate having a begining.

Br.al-Habeshi

[Oum Ahmad Mohamed]

Originally Posted by Al Habeshi

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem,

as-Salaamu 'Alaykum,

Being first in the English language does not neccesitate having a begining.

Br.al-Habeshi

Yes it does.

[Al Habeshi]

Originally Posted by Ruwayda Mustafah

Yes it does.

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem,

as-Salaamu 'Alaykum

May Allah preserve you and protect you in this world and hereafter.

I am going to disagree and state that being first, in english, as far as I know is indicative of position, i.e. first, second, etc.

Let us for example say we run an experiment and in this experiment we say time starts at 10pm. The experiment is to see who is first in class. I get to the class before 10pm, and then at 10pm someone starts the timer and at 10.52 another person arrives.

Now I was there first, but this does not mean I came in when time started at 10pm, rather I could have been there before that.

Here first does not neccesitate that I must have began to enter the room at 10pm, i.e. when time started, rather it just indicates that I was - with regards to the time of the experiment, i.e. from 10pm when the timer started - first in comparison to others i,.e. the dude who came in at 10.52.

It does not shed light on how long prior to the second person I had been there, I could have been there 2 minutes before or 10 or since before the start of (experiment) time. Or in the case of One who has the ability, forever.

Maybe I'm missing something which you have.

Regards,

Br.al-Habeshi

[ummeesa]

Simply put, what it means in English is irrelevant.

We are to understand things in context of how the Arabic language means it. Remember, a translation is an attempt to convey the closest meaning of something. However, it doesn't always hit the mark, especially with Arabic.

So sister Ruwayda, it is to be understood as brother Muhammad Salman has stated.

[Al Habeshi]

Originally Posted by ummeesa

Simply put, what it means in English is irrelevant.

Thank you.

[Oum Ahmad Mohamed]

Originally Posted by ummeesa

So sister Ruwayda, it is to be understood as brother Muhammad Salman has stated.

Al awwal necessitates a beginning and I don't understand what the attribute expresses.

Please explain.

[Um Abdullah M.]

Al-Awwal - The first means that there is nothing BEFORE/preceding Him, as is explained in the sahih hadith,
it does not mean that He has a begining, and I really don't understand how you understood it to mean that, neither I nor the others understood it to mean that.

As for the English defintion of first, I've checked its defintion in two online dictionaries, and it says:

- preceding all others in time or space or degree

noun - The one coming, occurring, or ranking before or above all others.

adjective - Coming before all others in order or location

adverb - Before or above all others in time, order, rank, or importance

Al awwal necessitates a beginning and I don't understand what the attribute expresses

If you mean the begining of a something, then true, that can be a meaning of it, like saying that the Throne is the first of creation (i.e. the Throne is the begining of creation)
But to say that it necessitates that the one who is titled with it has a begining then that is false.

Allah is the first meaning that there was nothing preceding Him (i.e. Allah precedes all existance), it does not meaning that He began (i.e. has a begining).

[Oum Ahmad Mohamed]

Alright makes sense. Jazaki Allahu khayran dear sis.

[Um Abdullah M.]

wa eeyak ukhti
and sorry if my reply sounded harsh, didn't intend it to be like that
I bold words or capitalize them to stress them and not to yell