Mashoor or mu'tamid opinion?

[fawzi-ibntahir]

As-salamoe 'aleikoum,

What is the difference between the mu'tamid opinion and the mashoor opinion?

In my simplistic view the mashoor is the famous (most known) view and the mu'tamid opinion is the one with the strongest proofs (adillah).

In this context may I say that if ibn qudamah and ibn muflih have concensus this also leads to the mashoor opinion of the hanbali madhab?

Is it true that the mu'tamid opinion is very subjective because the mujtahid sees his opinion as the one with the strongest proofs.

[oudden aboimane]

the difinition of juridique terms may differ from one school to another
regarding madheb maliki
mashoor is the opinion famous among fokaha
mu tamid is the opinion that most of fokaha take into consederation to tell people

[fawzi-ibntahir]

If one is Maliki does one have to follow the mu'tamid or the mashoor or can he follow any of the opinions of any of the Maliki jurists? For example delk is obliged in the ritual washings, wudhu and ghusl. If one (with nowadays showers) doesn't deem to be the right conclusion could one follow an opinion of one of the Maliki jurists who also doesn't deem this to be an obligation but merely mustahab.

[Ayman bin khaled]

Just consult the scholars in your areas or you can access and ask them for a fatwa the issue you inquire about. Do not start on your own decide what and what not to take.

[fawzi-ibntahir]

Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled

Just consult the scholars in your areas or you can access and ask them for a fatwa the issue you inquire about. Do not start on your own decide what and what not to take.

In my area of living the mashoor is that one can wash on regular socks, so who do I follow? You or my imam? I don't mean to be rude but these are the facts. What about learning the basics from a book and the available audio combining this with seeking regular consults. Or do you prefer one leaves the books and asks when questions arise? This is one of the reasons we mix up lots of rulings.

One marries without a wali (because he asked a hanafi shaykh) and he doesn't do delk and considers maniy to be tahir and after touching his wife with desire he doesn't renew his wudhu unless he sees substances on his private part (fluid) and doesn't have niyyah with ghusl and prays without madhmadha and istinshaaq and without washing his ears and only a part of the head.

Isn't it like taking the middle way, people seem to have left reading and books and they ask a lot leading them to various of asatieda and shuyookh all claiming to have adillah and eventually mixing up the chains in 3ibadaat, he does istinja so and so and wudhu according to so and so and ghusl according to so and so and prayer to so and so.

What is the remedy?

[Ayman bin khaled]

Habibi, you use terms that you need 10s of years to learn what they entail. In any case, no Madhab allows wiping on regular socks. If you follow what the shaykh in your area then do not come ask about it here. Just verify it with the one who gave it to you.

Search the Multaqa for all this kind of topics.

N.B. I do not understand the purpose of your questions or your too general statements.

[fawzi-ibntahir]

Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled

Habibi, you use terms that you need 10s of years to learn what they entail. In any case, no Madhab allows wiping on regular socks. If you follow what the shaykh in your area then do not come ask about it here. Just verify it with the one who gave it to you.

Search the Multaqa for all this kind of topics.

N.B. I do not understand the purpose of your questions or your too general statements.

Dear Ayman,

10 yrs to learn basic taharaah? That seems to be more than even the average bachelor given at Umm ul Quraa, I believe 4 years? And they seem to study more than only fiqh and more than only taharaah in 4 years time.

Plus I am not saying that I follow what my local imam says but I asked you advise and you answered me with "Just consult the scholars in your areas or you can access and ask them for a fatwa the issue you inquire about."

But these same scholars in my area seem to give me rulings with aren't valid according to my research and I include you in my research so your advise is taken by me. I 100% learn from your advise.

What also seems to be confusing to me is that you sometimes advise to look at islamqa and other sites which seem to follow mujtahid opinions that fall outside of the madhaahieb. But at the same time you say not to follow these opinions and that one is excused if he doesn't know. Does this mean that I have to give up my research and listen to anyone in my area who calls himself scholar/sheikh leading me to follow opinions that the classical scholars would deem to be invalid leading to my 3ibadaat being invalid?

[Ayman bin khaled]

[quote=fawzi-ibntahir;94481] 10 yrs to learn basic taharaah? [quote]

Please read my post again as you are talk about something else now. And yes, you will need 10 years to learn what I mentioned in my previous post not what you have mentioned in this post.

But these same scholars in my area seem to give me rulings with aren't valid according to my research and I include you in my research so your advise is taken by me. I 100% learn from your advise.

The highlighted word is the problem. We advised everyone that laypeople are not qualified to view evidences as well as scholars views. Thus, when you ask a scholar for a fatwa you are not allowed to go act on a different fatwa unless the fatwa is more safer for your deen.

What also seems to be confusing to me is that you sometimes advise to look at islamqa and other sites which seem to follow mujtahid opinions that fall outside of the madhaahieb.

99% of the views in these websites are Madhab based regardless how they formulate their answers. It has some odd views and sometimes fatwa that cannot be applicable to anyone but the one who asked it. Thus, when someone wish to verify a particular point he read there, we advise him about it in case it is odd or inapplicable otherwise we just advise him that it is a valid view.

But at the same time you say not to follow these opinions and that one is excused if he doesn't know.

Yes. Read my prevous posts and serach the Multaqa for my posts about laypeople and what they need to do.

Does this mean that I have to give up my research

You are qulaified to collect data but not to analyse it.

and listen to anyone in my area who calls himself scholar/sheikh leading me to follow opinions that the classical scholars would deem to be invalid leading to my 3ibadaat being invalid?

If you read carefully all what I wrote before, you will understand how to handle it. Again, you went to the shaykh in your area and gave you the fatwa (based on his taqleed of the one who said it) so you acted upon it. Now, you were notified that in fiqh this view is odd and never was adopted by any of the 4 Madhabs so in such case, you stop acting upon it. What you did before knowing so is fine and valid but what you will do after you have been notified might be not. So, you keep asking the people of knowledge in your area and you keep acting upon their directions until a safer view appears or an info about the invalidity of the view you were told about shows.

The number of mistakes of the Hanbali Mashaykh in fiqh are too minimal so nothing to worry about.

Wallahu A'lam

[fawzi-ibntahir]

Djazaka Allahu gairan. This is a beautiful advice.

So if I read in a reliable book that ibn qudamah says A and I ask a question to my local imam/ustadh/shaykh and he says B, can I act upon what I read? Thus the view of ibn qudamah.

Or does one have to give priority to the lafdh fatwa in stead of the written fatwa in a particular book?

The issue about 10 years: I mean only the basics so that I can do my salaah properly including the chain meaning niyyah/istinjaa/istijmar/wudhu/ghusl/salaah. This is basic knowledge which I want to learn from one madhab before commencing on mujtahid opinions. I am currently revising my 'ibadaat and making them valid according to the Hanbali madhab.

** you made a important note, in these times people may have the will to collect ahadeeth in English and usool in English and derive their own conclusions Allahoel moesta3aan. My niyyah is to collect fatawa, ruling from leading scholars in the Hanbali madhab and act upon this. In this process I will have to build knowledge rock by rock untill eventually (in about 40 years) I have a little bit of knowledge. I also see fitan in these times like youngsters who have some arabic and hifdh start giving courses in all kind of subjects while we know that the salaf probably wouldn't even let you enter their classes without mastering arabic (na7w, sarf, balagha, manteeq, etc.) and hifdh.**


Ustadh a different question: "when you ask a scholar for a fatwa you are not allowed to go act on a different fatwa unless the fatwa is more safer for your deen", isn't this subjective because something may be safer for me in my own view but less safer for you? One may believe that niqaab is safer for her in terms of proof (even tough she cannot look at the proofs because she is unqualified to do so) but in terms of safety (literally being safe) she thinks this is unsafe because a racist could attack her in the west. This seems to be a qa3ida, may I learn from you and know where this qa3ida comes from?

[Ayman bin khaled]

Originally Posted by fawzi-ibntahir

So if I read in a reliable book that ibn qudamah says A and I ask a question to my local imam/ustadh/shaykh and he says B, can I act upon what I read? Thus the view of ibn qudamah.

In respect to simple and basics issues, reading a recognised book in the Madhab is enough for you to act upon. However, when you decide to read such type of books you should read a simple book not a book that discusses different views and such like books. So, to learn Tahara and Salah, just grap yourself the book of Sh. ibn Baaz about pray as the Prophet used to pray or the book of Sh. Bakr Abu Zaid (رحمهم الله أجمعين). In other words, take a book from the recent Shaykhs such as Ibn 'Uthaimin, Ibn baaz or Bakr Abu Zaid (رحمهم الله أجمعين) since you want a Hanbali Madhab based book.

Or does one have to give priority to the lafdh fatwa in stead of the written fatwa in a particular book?

ditto

Ustadh a different question: "when you ask a scholar for a fatwa you are not allowed to go act on a different fatwa unless the fatwa is more safer for your deen", isn't this subjective because something may be safer for me in my own view but less safer for you? One may believe that niqaab is safer for her in terms of proof (even tough she cannot look at the proofs because she is unqualified to do so) but in terms of safety (literally being safe) she thinks this is unsafe because a racist could attack her in the west. This seems to be a qa3ida, may I learn from you and know where this qa3ida comes from?

safer is not based on what people consider safer i.e. I stated "safer in deen" e.g. Niqab is preferable according to some and obligatory according to some. The safest view in such case is to wear it because this way the woan saves herself from the possibility of sinning based on the valid other view that states its obligatory.

Wallahu A'lam