A small Question on preservation of the Qur'an

[Hassan_'Abd_Allah]

Assalamu 'Alaikum

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.

This is my question inshAllah.

As far as Im concerned the first scripts the Qur'an didnt have any dots (Nukta). he Nuktas were later added. Now in Arabic more than one letter might look the same without the nukta added to them. So How were the Scholars able to add the Nuktas precisely? And did any possibility of lets say variant readings arise in the case of Nukta Placement?

[Al Habeshi]

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem,

as-Slaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah.

Thre are many thngs tht we do whtout knowing.

Chances are that you read the above:

as-Salaamu Alaykum...

There are many things that we do without knowing.

That's a small example wherein familiarity of the language has allowed you to 'fill in the gaps'.

But more importantly, when researching the preservation of a text what do you look at akhee? Let's have that discussion, because if you are evaluating this issue you need to know what you are looking for.

In my personal research I have come up with a list of factors which help to know whether a text/message has been preserved or not, one of them is 'an ongoing oral tradition of teaching mouth to mouth'

That alone answers your question of how they knew which letters were which and not only that but it adds to the certainty I have that the Qur'an was and is preserved.

p.s. I was wondering, was there a reason you placed your salaam before the basmala?

Your brother,
Br.al-Habeshi

[Hassan_'Abd_Allah]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem!

Wa 'alaikumussalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu!!!

Let me first start by saying you just made my day

May Allah reward you immensely Ameen ya Rabbal 'Alameen

No reason, I was in an awkward mood and your insightful wording helped me feel like I belong here on Allahs Earth Alhamdulillah

Getting back to the issue at hand: Yes, that is what I thought really. When we consider the fact that Qur'an was maintained by means of Oral Traditions there is no possibility of such "variant readings".

This "argument" I posed in the guise of a question is part of the residue left from the garbage that once occupied my head thanx to the Missionary sites. And you know how they are, they dont give any context or factors etc or anything just that one bold question standing up, enough to mess with your head.

Never mind this one. Preservation of scriptures is a very deep study as I discovered after reading from www.islamic-awareness.org and other scholarly pages.

about placing Salaam before Bismillah, I didnt know that you do it the other way around. Sorry if this sounds dumb though, Ive been practising for about 2 years now and got a lot more stuff to learn about Islam.

[Al Habeshi]

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem,

Glad that I done something good today, I hope that Allah is pleased with it.

A side note to point out, Oral Tradition in Islamic History is totally different from Oral Tradition as understood by most western scholars of Christianity.

Preservation of scripture is as most subject easy and simple akhee. What you have to realise is that mankind is arguementative, sometimes its good (i.e. when really seeking the truth) sometimes its bad (i.e. when seeking a way to make truth follow you).

Like for example, the attributes of Allah, pretty simple for most people including laymen, Allah knows Himself, He tells us He has a hand, He tells us nothing is like Him, so we affirm that He has a Hand and we don't know the how or likeness.

Allah preserves the Qur'an and the way it was preserved is obvious, no reasonable doubt.

Yet people want to argue and say 'well philosopically Allah can't have this so it means that' or 'the Bible has x manuscripts the Qur'an has only y'.

Thereby confusing their own selves with the false and biased arguements.

As for the Basmala, I didn't say it was wrong, I was just asking because maybe you had a reason that I was not aware of, don't stop just because I asked may Allah preserve you.

Br.al-Habeshi

[Hassan_'Abd_Allah]

bismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu 'alaikum wr wbt akh

erm I wanna learn about the preservation of Qur'an and a comparative study of it with the preservation of the Bible. And I know pretty much nothing about it. Care to hook me up with some basic links etc.?

[Bassam Zawadi]

erm I wanna learn about the preservation of Qur'an and a comparative study of it with the preservation of the Bible. And I know pretty much nothing about it. Care to hook me up with some basic links etc.?

Get Mustafa Al Azami's book "The History of the Qur'anic Text from Revelation to Compilation: A Comparative Study with the Old and New Testaments".

Also, bare in mind that top Western scholarship recognizes that the Qur'an is very well preserved - in contrast to their findings on the New Testament -.

I cited these scholars in my Qur'anic preservation debate last year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWK1xv0Bt-A

Remember what I said.... set the foundation.

[Hassan_'Abd_Allah]

Salaam akh and thanx for helping out again.

Get Mustafa Al Azami's book "The History of the Qur'anic Text from Revelation to Compilation: A Comparative Study with the Old and New Testaments".

I need a pdf copy of this, link?

Remember what I said.... set the foundation.

Indeed I remember, therefore Im only gonna read from Muslims Scholars.

[Bassam Zawadi]

I need a pdf copy of this, link?

I'm not aware of any. Buy it.

[Salahuldeen]

Originally Posted by Bassam Zawadi

I'm not aware of any. Buy it.

This post is a little out of date, but I was browsing through the forum. I searched a little for this book since I was interested in reading it as well, I found it available online here.

I hope that helped.
Please make Du'a for me.
JazakomAllah Khayran

[Hassan_'Abd_Allah]

Wow bruh thanx a lot Alhamdulillah

[Al Habeshi]

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem,

as-Salaamu Alaykum

This is my two cents;

There are various ways to preserve a message, all having advantages and disadvantages; (some are)

1.Passing it from mouth to mouth alone,
2.Passing it in writing alone from person to person.
3.Passing books.
4.Locking it in a safe.

Anyhow, the preservation of a message can use a combination of the above.

Islam: Written from person to person and Orally passed down from person to person.

Christianity: Mostly passed down through writing.

There are various factors which help us to know whether the message was preseved sucessfully or not; for example;

1.How did the first people passing the message on regard the message? In Islam the Muslims believed this was word for word the Speech of Allah so they were very careful in writing the details, not just letters but even the elongation places when reciting. There is not evidence of the likes in Christianity but evidence shows the opposites, many believed that Jesus was coming before they would die and had no need to write, also there is no evidence to show they believed in the word for word copying in general especially in the supposed oral stages.

2.Was the social polotical context suitable? Christians in the early days were being persecuted and had to hide, having no authority, this of course must have made it hard for the disciples to control the aunthetic message of Jesus. The dissciples of Prophet Muhammad SallaAllahu Alayhi wa Salam who believed in their religion on the other hand had the authority of their own state and thus could make sure that the message remained pure.

Anyhow, this is cutting a long story short, but when you look at the various angles and background you see that the Islamic History is a Miracle in and of itself!!

Walillahilhamd

Br.al-Habeshi

[tahir123]

azami complete words : and the people behind the madina mushaf for PRINTING the most accurate Qur'anic text in the world.


salaam

can someone explain what "printing the most accurate qur'anic text in the world" means?

when azami wrote the above sentence in the preface of his book "the qur'anic text" did he interpret it to mean that muslim put together ANCIENT manuscripts of thequr'an (textual criticism) and then rAn them through a printer?


is he indirectly refering to misprints in other ACCURATE Qur'ans?

were modern accurate manuscripts, based on earlier manuscripts, used to produce the "MOST accurate Qur'anic text" ?

these (azamis words in red print) are basic words which i am having a difficulty in understanding.

[Bassam Zawadi]

and the people behind the madina mushaf for PRINTING the most accurate Qur'anic text in the world.

which page?

[tahir123]

PREFACE

XXi

3 paragraph

[Bassam Zawadi]

aww yes, he is referring to the most accurate manuscript to our current text.

[tahir123]

aww yes, he is referring to the most accurate manuscript to our current text.

please explain bro.

[Bassam Zawadi]

There are thousands of manuscripts. Many of these manuscripts may contain foonotes, scribal mistakes, personal notes and commentaries, certain surahs and not the complete Qur'an, etc.

So out of all these ancient manuscripts he is commenting on the Madinah Mushaf.

For more on Qur'an preservation see my debate here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWK1x...eature=related

To know more about Qur'anic manuscripts go here http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/

[tahir123]

jazakAllah

[tahir123]

i still don't get it.

and the people behind the madina mushaf for PRINTING the most accurate Qur'anic text in the world.

what is the different between accurate and most accurate?

if they printed the most accurate qur'anic text, then what about the quras around the world who did not have the most accurate qur'anic text?

[tahir123]

modern manuscripts which are ACCURATE are based on previous manuscripts from past centuries, right? a qaria will easily detect errors because he is not new or dependant on error filled manuscript.